When I was quite young, a mere third grader, a bunch of us young developing men went to one of the guy's grandmother's house. She went out to the kitchen to get us some cookies and milk. When she came back into her living room, I stood up. That is what my parents had taught me. Respect the elderly, treat women with respect, and show good manners no matter what environment you were in. I was the only one that stood up when the grandmother came back into the living room. I was rewarded. The grandmother not only gave me the cookies and milk, she gave me a dollar. A dollar was a lot of money then. She used me as an example of good manners. The scene taught me that good manners pay.
I open the door for both men and women. If you are coming out of a store with your hands full that matters more to me then what sex you are. I do open car doors for women. I will pull out their chair at dinner. I try very hard not to talk with my mouth full. I wash my hands after doing men things. I try to live good manners.
All that being said, then why did I have such a negative reaction to the following article?:
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/arizona-teacher-adds-etiquette-to-lessons/19355240?icid=main|htmlws-sb-n|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aolnews.com%2Fnation%2Farticle%2Farizona-teacher-adds-etiquette-
to-lessons%2F19355240
Am I the only that is reacting negatively to what the teacher is doing? I think it is great that the young men are learning social skills but instead of teach equality among the sexes is the teacher in some way being sexist?
I would be interested to hear your take on the article. Is what the teacher is doing good? Bad? Sexist?. Shouldn't he also be teaching some type of social manners to the female students?
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10 comments:
Interesting article, and your take on it is interesting, too. That kind of manners can result in a funny kind of dance, if you're a woman and you don't know the man in the scenario. I'll sort of hang back and slow down to give the man a chance to open the door for me, but if he's too slow about it or obviously not going to do it, I'll happily open it myself.
I don't particularly want a man to pull out a chair for me. When to slide it forward is awkward and doesn't usually work all that well.
Standing up every time a woman enters the room is really kind of silly, imo, depending on the room and how often it might be called for (sorry about that). To stand when being introduced to anyone is probably a polite thing to do, but I often don't do it myself. If I go through a door first, I'll hold it for the next person regardless of gender.
Having said all that, I think it's nice that the teacher is training the boys in formal manners. He might add some training in table manners, perhaps, and I liked the suggestion about looking people in the eye when talking or listening (with some emphasis on listening, which seems hard for some people of both sexes). I also liked the comment that it was good as long as it was "practical manners" and not the "white glove, snobby kind".
Interesting article and, as Pat said, interesting reaction on your part, particularly since he's teaching much of what you practice yourself.
OTOH, I think teaching the girls basic manners is equally important, although perhaps more difficult in a classroom setting. I appreciate having doors opened for me, but will open the door for either gender, particularly if someone is loaded with parcels. While standing whenever a girl enters a room may be a bit passe these days, I do think teaching youngsters to stand when an older person or someone in authority enters the room shows respect and hope he's teaching both sexes to do that when, for instance, the principal visits.
Although I see a fair amount of chivalry here in the south and am often addressed as "ma'am" by anyone over the age of about 25, it's fading. I find it appalling to see younger people blasting past older folks, never considering holding a door, never offering to help carry packages. One's lucky to get a "yo" out of an introduction. "Please" and "thank you" are no longer magic words.
I guess, bottom line, I think it's overall a good idea, so long as the etiquette training includes both sexes. With so many cases where both parents work, meals are catch as catch can, etc., I think etiquette isn't taught at home, like it used to be, And I'm not so sure it's etiquette I see missing as it is the application of good, old-fashioned good manners. I think there are two things that schools could teach and do our kids a big favor - good manners and fiscal responsibility, in terms of handling money in a practical way. At the risk of sounding like an old fuddy-duddy, it appears a large percentage of our population under the age of 35 don't have much of a clue about either.
Hi Pat
I think it would be nices if the sexes could teach each other what we are comfortable with. For example, it wouldn't offend me if a woman told me, "you know I don't really like someone pulling out a chair for me, I just find it uncomfortable." I think it just shows we need to talk to each other a little more.
I think the standing up can be silly, especially if you are at a TV watching party and stand up every time the hostess comes in! You feel like a yo-yo.
The good thing about the formal manners being taught at an early age *may* lead to less domestic violence, sort of changing their attitudes towards women early on.
I'd definitely add table manners to the
The comment "practical manners" and not the "white glove, snobby kind". Tickled me and I agreed with it!
Bill
Hi DR
I was stunned at my reaction to the article, especially, like you said since I do a lot of what they are teaching.
That is the part that bothered me, they were only teaching the boys to respect the girls and I thought there should be some teaching about respecting boys, the proper way to turn down a boy for a date, for example.
I completely agree with you about teach both boys and girls to stand for the elderly and the authority figures!
I can't tell you the number of times a young person almost knocked mom down when she was using a walker.
Not only good manners and fiscal responsibility but they could teach some practical things like how to reconcile a bank account!
Obviously I agree with you so if you are fuddy duddy then so am I.
Bill
Bill, a tv watching party is a very good example of when NOT to stand every time a woman enters the room, esp. if the hostess is in and out. Just common sense, which I know you have plenty of.
Is there a proper way to turn down a boy for a date? More proper than just doing it as politely as possible? I know it's hard for the boys, but it's hard for the girls, too, and if there's a good way to do it, they should know about it. It doesn't get easier as you get older, either.
Hi Pat
That is why I used TV watching as an example, it is the perfect place not to get up every time someone comes into the room.
As to being turned down for a date, not from personal experience of course, I think being taught not to laugh at the guy asking the date would be good policy. Are at least help them to understand how hard it is for some guys to take that step and how awful it is when they are laughed at. I would love to reve role reversals in the class. A day when guys are girls and a day when girls are guys. It would help them to understand what each other face.
Bill
Bill, to laugh at a guy asking for a date is an absolute no-no, and only a very cruel girl/woman would do that.
To come up with an excuse which leaves the door open when maybe you want it closed is sort of the easy way out, and may seem kind at the time. To somehow honestly get across that you like the person but don't consider him date material is much, much harder, and if there's a good way to do that, it should be published somewhere.
I think your idea of role reversal is great. The more we can put ourselves in the other person's shoes, the more we can understand what the other is feeling, the better. Way back when, many schools had "sadie hawkins day" dances, in which the girls had to ask the boys or dates and/or ask the boys to dance.
Hi Pat
Laughing is cruel but I've seen it done. Maybe they thought the guy was joking.
We should have a manual!!
Bill
Hi DR
If we took turns in each others shoes maybe we wouldn't be so scared by the other sex!
Bill
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